Z-Wave.Me future (discussion)

[Spacerat]

For many users, my sense is that it will be easier to exclude/re-include their Z-Wave devices with a new controller.

I have ca. 50 Z-Wave devices, many of them hiden in the wall behind switches. So re-adding them to a new controller would be difficult.

Backup of a Razberry 7 Pro is not compatible with any other Z-Wave USB Stick?
Could I also install Z-Wave JS UI onto a new SD Card and boot the Pi with this SD and then perform a backup / restore ?

An alternative migration approach is for @PoltoS to provide a Razberry 7 backup tool that dumps the NVRAM into a format the Zooz ZAC93 and ZST39 controllers support (see: https://www.thesmartesthouse.com/collec ... ontrollers) using zwave-js-ui. This approach allows @PoltoS to create a simple migration path: (1) Run backup on RazBerry, (2) Use zwave-js-ui to restore the backup onto either a Zooz ZAC93 or ZST39 controller. Ideally, the Razberry Gen 2 (500-series) would have a similar migration approach.

That would be a great, if we could have such a tool for the migration!

[seattleneil]

I have ca. 50 Z-Wave devices, many of them hiden in the wall behind switches. So re-adding them to a new controller would be difficult.

As long as your Razberry 7 Pro controller is working well, there's no reason to migrate to a new controller. Out of an abundance of caution, you could purchase a spare Razberry 7 Pro controller. To ensure backup/restore compatibility, make sure both controllers are using the same firmware level.

Backup of a Razberry 7 Pro is not compatible with any other Z-Wave USB Stick?

Correct. Strictly speaking, NVM format/contents may be incompatible between 2 Razberry 7 Pro controllers if the 2 controllers are not at the same firmware level. This complexity is typically hidden from the user because Z-Way software will automagically convert NVM contents between different firmware levels. Z-Way software can also convert NVM contents from their 500-series controller (e.g., Gen 2 Razberry) to their 700-series controller (e.g., Razberry 7 Pro). A side effect of supporting automatic conversion is that many users underestimate NVM complexity.

The Silabs PC controller and Z-Wave JS software can also automagically convert NVM contents between different firmware levels. They can also backup and restore NVM contents between several different controller manufacturers that use a standard NVM format, but Z-Wave.Me controllers use a non-standard NVM format.

Could I also install Z-Wave JS UI onto a new SD Card and boot the Pi with this SD and then perform a backup / restore ?

No. Z-Wave.Me controllers use a non-standard NVM format. Note that you can install Z-Wave JS UI on the same Pi as Z-Way, just don't have both running at the same time. In other words, if you want to use Z-Way controller software, make sure Z-Wave JS UI is not running, and vice-versa.

That would be a great, if we could have such a tool for the migration!

Agree. In theory, a tool could be written that takes the Z-Wave.Me non-standard NVM format backup file and converts the file to a standard NVM format backup file (as used by the Silabs PC controller and Z-Wave JS). Since this functionality relies on non-publicly available information, perhaps @PoltoS will create such a tool after the inventory of Z-Wave.Me controllers is sold. IMHO, @PoltoS may not want to provide a conversion tool now as it would likely undermine his desire to sell the existing controller inventory.

[captador]

Thanks to modularity and standards, it is not a big of a problem and opportunity to revisit setup. So as others said there are few strategies to choose from:

0. Make network to be less dependent on z-way as such
1. Freeze: stock hardware units and use them when operative controller dies (never happen so far for me). Also good to make backup of SD cards with z-way even though repos promised to stay public.
2. Soft migration: switch to z-wave js + ui, keep hardware old. HomeAssistant points to remote z-wave js
3. DIY migration: keep compute hardware same, switch controllers to Zooz or Aeotec, use z-wave js, rebuild network or restore if backup conversion become available. Add zigbee if wanted
4. COTS migration: switch to all-in smartboxes like Homey, Aeotec, Fibaro box etc, rebuild network, scrap HA

If i want care-free zigbee/zwave/matter setup with possible monthly fee and remote vendor lock-in then 4 is the option. If i want 0 extra costs, then 1 is fine.

I probably would go with 0->3 and continue to stay on DIY path.

Grateful to @poltos for the journey and graceful sunset of the solution

[lanbrown]

You can run Z-Way as an add-on in Home Assistant. That is what I do. So Z-Way just feeds into Home Assistant via the integration. For me, when the 900 series is released is when I will need to revisit the setup. You never know, by then the new employer PoltoS has might have some offering.

From the first page:

Z-Way is now a product of Trident IoT

So it is the hardware that is being sunset. Z-Way will just support new controllers and I highly doubt that the current controllers won't have a path to create a backup from that cannot be used in the new controllers based upon Trident chips.

[nachtfalke50]

Right now, it's a bit of a pain to get their hardware fully compatible with Zwave JS and other controllers, especially if you're trying to move away from their ecosystem. There’s definitely a demand for more openness

[PoltoS]

@showbees Z-Uno will remain available for quite some time (we produced a lot of them). At some point they will become an option on the Trident IoT Neptune boards (Dev Kit by Trident IoT, SKU: DKNCZ20B20, https://tridentiot.com/technology/zwave/)

@alky No worries, your Z-Station will continue to work with Z-Way released by Trident IoT. Check https://tridentiot.github.io/apt-repository/ to install the latest Z-Way.

@markchang your 4.1.4 will work forever and you can switch to a newer one by Trident. It is free until you stard doing business using Z-Way. At that moment come to Trident IoT for licensing. Z-Wave.Me app will remain in Google & Apple stores. Remote access will work at least two years.

@aLiEnHeAd It costs us nothing to maintain this forum forever. Some of you (active users) are already moderators and we can promote more moderators. The more we keep alive, the happier I'll be (until it contradicts the policy of Trident IoT and moral norms in the Internet).

Thanks to all of you for those great days and this community support!

Please note that we are not going too far from where we are. Trident IoT released a new Z-Way release. This release is free for individuals and developers (check the MSLA on this page: https://tridentiot.github.io/apt-repository/License.txt). If you are doing business on Z-Way, please contact Trident IoT or me. Otherwise, have fun and continue to use it! We love our early adopters!

New Z-Way versions can be found here:
https://github.com/tridentiot/z-way-builds
https://tridentiot.github.io/apt-repository/ (Debian/Ubuntu/Raspbian APT repository)

Z-Way passed in January on more Z-Wave Certification and became a platform to create new Z-Wave controllers (like Z/IP, Z-Ware and Unify by SiLabs, but better

New Trident IoT Z-Wave chips were also released. You can play with the new Z-Wave SDK using the DKNCZ20B20 devi kit https://tridentiot.com/technology/zwave/)

[element]

PoltoS,

I didn't know about the end of the project - I don't check everywhere, and such important information should be on the main pages, not just after entering the announcements section.

End of the project, so I understand that there will be no new devices, but I don't understand why this would mean no support for products that have already been sold. Support should exist for some time. At least 2 years, which is the warranty period when purchased.

Am I to understand that every Z-Uno board whose firmware is updated is to be thrown away? I paid a lot of money for the boards, and now I feel cheated. I don't need full support. Please, at least unlock the firmware downgrade or indicate who I should contact to get money for the faulty product from you?

I described the problem of boards that are completely non-functional with the new firmware in these threads:
1.https://forum.z-wave.me/viewtopic.php?f=3427&t=36152
2.https://forum.z-wave.me/viewtopic.php?f=3427&t=36153

[lanbrown]

Did you read the part about the Z-Uno SDK?

Z-Uno SDK is now also a product of Trident IoT. All Trident IoT DevKits coming in near future should be Z-Uno-compatible.

[element]

Did you read the part about the Z-Uno SDK?

Z-Uno SDK is now also a product of Trident IoT. All Trident IoT DevKits coming in near future should be Z-Uno-compatible.

Of course I read it. I understand it this way: sometime in the future, when they design "Trident IoT DevKits", I will be able to either buy additional boards or replace the old "Z-Uno" with "Trident IoT DevKits" and upload the same my software and connect it electrically in the same way. I do not see this as a solution to my problem with non-working boards Z-Uno. However, if I were to roll back the firmware so that my boards would still work. To do this, only need to compile the bootloader source code with a newer number and the downgrade lock removed.

[element]

I also guess that "Trident IoT DevKits" as a new product will use new chips, currently Z-Wave 800 instead of Z-Wave 700 like Z-Uno2, so there will be no compatibility at the bootloader level.