Hi,
Until recently I used RaZberry as a primary controller .
The range wasn't always far enough to reach my house second floor.
That's why I purchased RAZBERRY 7 PRO (WITH EXTERNAL ANTENNA)
I include and configure it as a secondary controller of my primary controller (through the advanced menu)
now my RAZBERRY 7 PRO stand at my second floor . (really close to my FIBARO devices)
-Then I have total 2 RAZBERRY controllers latest version v4.1.1
-All my devices connected to my primary controller
- 2 of my RaZberry connected to the same LAN network.
- Razberry firmware version : 5.39 [Bootloader: 48059]
- RAZBERRY 7 PRO firmware version : 7.06 [Bootloader: 1766938484]
Actually my goal was to use RAZBERRY 7 PRO as a communication Bridge VIA Over LAN
I was thought that once I made such a move, As soon as I send a command to the primary controller\or from my primary controller It will recognize that the best route with the best Range is to send that command through the secondary controller.
(over LAN and then from RAZBERRY 7 PRO to my devices over RF zwave)
But I don't see any range improvement
the ZwaveMe still try to send the command from my primary controller (which as really poor communication quality) directly to the second floor devices .
Is there a way to set it up ?
If it's not clear, of course I'm interested in working with one system that will control all Devices and not work with 2 different applications\RaZberry apps/ID
Did I miss something?
What is actually the Idea of the connection of the 2 controllers ?
if I would include the second floor devices to my secondary controller ( RAZBERRY 7 PRO) ,
Is it possible to view them at my main favorite devices screen of my primary controller ?
Thanks
RaZberry 7 PRO secondary controller as a range extender
RaZberry 7 PRO secondary controller as a range extender
Last edited by OneWorld on 15 Aug 2023 08:25, edited 4 times in total.
Re: RaZberry 7 PRO as secondary controller
To overcome range issues, I run multiple Z-Way installs each with a Razberry 7 Pro board. There is an app from Z-Wave.me that allows you yo combine them into a single system. It is combined only on one of the systems. In my case I have a single system with no Z-Wave devices that combines the systems into a single instance that then communicates with Home Assistant.
I would have the the first floor on one system, the second floor on the other and use the remote z-way server app to combine them You will still have two separate Z-Wave networks but on one system you would have control of all of the devices. If you need to add a new device you add it on the system that will ultimately control it. So if it is on the second floor, it would be the second floor system.
You could add the second system as a second controller on the other system, but certain devices only send updates to the lifeline. So the other system would not know of the updated state.
I would have the the first floor on one system, the second floor on the other and use the remote z-way server app to combine them You will still have two separate Z-Wave networks but on one system you would have control of all of the devices. If you need to add a new device you add it on the system that will ultimately control it. So if it is on the second floor, it would be the second floor system.
You could add the second system as a second controller on the other system, but certain devices only send updates to the lifeline. So the other system would not know of the updated state.
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seattleneil
- Posts: 172
- Joined: 02 Mar 2020 22:41
Re: RaZberry 7 PRO secondary controller as a range extender
Adding to the reply by @lanbrown...
Secondary controllers are a Z-Wave legacy feature and should not be used in a modern Z-Wave system that has security-enabled devices. Secondary controllers were useful prior to Z-Wave's network-wide inclusion feature. As you've discovered, adding your new RaZberry 7 controller as a secondary controller is not a good approach.
As @lanbrown wrote, a good approach is to retain your first floor primary controller and use it for your first floor devices and add a second floor primary controller as a new Z-Wave network and link the 2 Z-Wave networks together. Note that you'll need do a controller factory default reset on your RaZberry 7 controller and then exclude and re-include your second floor devices for use with your new second floor primary controller.
If your house is not as large as @lanbrown's where the Z-Wave mesh routing is not reliable, a cheaper/easier approach is to replace your old RaZberry board with your new RaZberry 7 board and just use a single primary controller. The backup/restore procedure for replacing the RaZberry board is discussed in this post: https://forum.z-wave.me/viewtopic.php?f=3422&t=35053. If you pursue this approach, I suggest moving your Pi to a central location on your second floor to improve RF coverage and then do a network reorganization using the expert UI. The expert UI has tools to show you if there's RF interference/noise, the signal strength for your Z-Wave devices, packet stats and mesh routing info. If you use the information provided by these tools correctly and your house is moderately sized, chances are good that a single controller is all you need, with the possible addition of a well-placed Z-Wave repeater (all Z-Wave mains-powered devices are Z-Wave repeaters).
Secondary controllers are a Z-Wave legacy feature and should not be used in a modern Z-Wave system that has security-enabled devices. Secondary controllers were useful prior to Z-Wave's network-wide inclusion feature. As you've discovered, adding your new RaZberry 7 controller as a secondary controller is not a good approach.
As @lanbrown wrote, a good approach is to retain your first floor primary controller and use it for your first floor devices and add a second floor primary controller as a new Z-Wave network and link the 2 Z-Wave networks together. Note that you'll need do a controller factory default reset on your RaZberry 7 controller and then exclude and re-include your second floor devices for use with your new second floor primary controller.
If your house is not as large as @lanbrown's where the Z-Wave mesh routing is not reliable, a cheaper/easier approach is to replace your old RaZberry board with your new RaZberry 7 board and just use a single primary controller. The backup/restore procedure for replacing the RaZberry board is discussed in this post: https://forum.z-wave.me/viewtopic.php?f=3422&t=35053. If you pursue this approach, I suggest moving your Pi to a central location on your second floor to improve RF coverage and then do a network reorganization using the expert UI. The expert UI has tools to show you if there's RF interference/noise, the signal strength for your Z-Wave devices, packet stats and mesh routing info. If you use the information provided by these tools correctly and your house is moderately sized, chances are good that a single controller is all you need, with the possible addition of a well-placed Z-Wave repeater (all Z-Wave mains-powered devices are Z-Wave repeaters).
Re: RaZberry 7 PRO secondary controller as a range extender
Another advantage of multiple Z-Wave networks is that updates are a lot faster. You don't have hop to hop to hop which takes much time. The controller is able to update devices far faster since a mesh is not being utilized. Plus scenes and such are also faster since Raspberry Pi to Raspberry Pi is much faster. The speed of Z-Wave is 9.6kbps to 100kbps. So status updates, control and such are also faster. It will be even faster when WebSockets is used between the controllers, but that work hasn't been completed by the developers as of yet.
Keep in mind that most wireless communication is half-duplex. Only a single device can transmit at a time. So in the case of Z-Wave if the network is busy say with multi-sensor updates, actions, etc. requests can get a bit delayed. Devices are getting more and more features that didn't exist when Z-Wave was developed. Muti-sensors, power metering, etc. all take network bandwidth. While mesh is great, it still leaves the half-duplex issue at play. When one device is sending, the other all need to wait and back off for an amount of time before they can try again. So with mesh is gets worse since now you have a device storing data to send until free airtime is available.
I found firmware updates could take a bit of time for remote devices as each node in the path had to store and forward. Multi-sensors can be busy little devices.
I also was nearing the capacity of the number of Z-Wave devices a single controller could handle. They have addressed that issue with long-range but not every device is long-range capable so for legacy devices, you're still limited to 232 devices. You also have a hop count limit.
I recently got 40 Inovelli Gen 7 dimmers/switches. Imagine when a firmware comes out, updating 40 in a mesh is going to take quite a bit of time. I remember doing some Aeotec updates when I had a mesh network. I could take an hour or so to update a single device that relied on mesh. Z-Wave is very chatty, since it needs an ACK before moving on as that is the validation that what was sent was received. If you do an update to a device that is visible directly by the controller, updates are far faster. Multi-sensors still play a part though since they can cause wait times on other devices for free airtime. If I watched the status, the update was fast until a multi-sensor kicked in to send updates and then you might have a 5 second or so wait before the update would resume. In a mesh it is worse.
Keep in mind that most wireless communication is half-duplex. Only a single device can transmit at a time. So in the case of Z-Wave if the network is busy say with multi-sensor updates, actions, etc. requests can get a bit delayed. Devices are getting more and more features that didn't exist when Z-Wave was developed. Muti-sensors, power metering, etc. all take network bandwidth. While mesh is great, it still leaves the half-duplex issue at play. When one device is sending, the other all need to wait and back off for an amount of time before they can try again. So with mesh is gets worse since now you have a device storing data to send until free airtime is available.
I found firmware updates could take a bit of time for remote devices as each node in the path had to store and forward. Multi-sensors can be busy little devices.
I also was nearing the capacity of the number of Z-Wave devices a single controller could handle. They have addressed that issue with long-range but not every device is long-range capable so for legacy devices, you're still limited to 232 devices. You also have a hop count limit.
I recently got 40 Inovelli Gen 7 dimmers/switches. Imagine when a firmware comes out, updating 40 in a mesh is going to take quite a bit of time. I remember doing some Aeotec updates when I had a mesh network. I could take an hour or so to update a single device that relied on mesh. Z-Wave is very chatty, since it needs an ACK before moving on as that is the validation that what was sent was received. If you do an update to a device that is visible directly by the controller, updates are far faster. Multi-sensors still play a part though since they can cause wait times on other devices for free airtime. If I watched the status, the update was fast until a multi-sensor kicked in to send updates and then you might have a 5 second or so wait before the update would resume. In a mesh it is worse.